Episode #37: Al Lindner Discusses Faith, Family and Fishing with RAD Cast Outdoors

(Photo Courtesy of Lindner Media)

Everyone in the fishing world knows the name, Al Lindner and have either seen his TV shows over the years, or have read his many fishing articles. Al has accomplished many great things during his fishing career and is a member of the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame. He also has been successful at winning many fishing tournaments over the years. He and his brother Ron Lindner started the Lindy Tackle company and In-Fisherman magazine which both helped revolutionize fishing as we know it. Al has been able to share fishing tips and tricks on film with the In-Fisherman TV show and most recently with the Angling Edge TV show. Al spends many hours on the water fishing for smallmouth bass, crappie, walleye, muskie and just about anything that swims! 

I want to say a special thanks to Danny Kurttila for helping to set up this interview. Without Danny's help, there is a good chance this interview would not have happened. So, thank you Danny! 

(Photo Courtesy of Lindner Media)

On this episode of RAD Cast Outdoors, Al sits down with us and talks about Faith, Family and Fishing. Al tells about his childhood and how he grew up loving the sport of fishing. He recounts making it a point to make a living at fishing and how his mother and big brother supported that dream. Al discusses raising his two boys to fish and gives tips on getting your family and friends involved. 

Al also spends a little time talking about his faith and how it has been apart of his career. He shares how God has affected his life and how his current endeavor with Lindner Media. 

Lastly, Al talks about fishing in the western US and how there are many virtually untapped fisheries to explore. We hope you'll take an hour and listen to this episode! You'll love learning from Al Lindner.

This show is sponsored by PK Lures. Go check out www.pklure.com to get some of the finest fishing tackle on the market for open water and ice fishing. 

 Again, Al it's great to have you on the program. Um, I do want to give a quick shout out to Danny. Kurttila my cousin for helping set this up with Al um, that was kind of a big deal. And thanks, Danny. Yeah, so I really appreciate Danny and, um, Al just want to welcome you to this show. Thanks for, uh, taking time out of your busy schedule to hang out with us on a podcast for a little bit.
I I'm looking forward to what there's nothing makes me happier than a cold in Minnesota. If I can't be out fishing, I should be talking about fishing it's going to be well below zero tonight. So, wow. That's probably one of the big motivations for Patrick and I to start this podcast is we both have young families and we're both avidly into the outdoors, whether it's fishing, hunting, or a little bit of both.
So that's our, our goal is to, uh, you know, recruit new, new anglers and new hunters to the, to the, Outdoors, Well the timing is really appropriate for it. Yeah. You know, we've got a whole new recruitment. Uh, coming in because of COVID, our sport has never seen [00:01:00] before variance in the outdoors and they need, uh, need some guidance in a lot of cases to yeah.
You know, respect the resource. And, uh, uh, that's an important part of what's happening now with these a whole lot of these new priests coming in. It's it's been fun to watch you over the years. Cause you've, you've really helped kind of teach everybody about that. And I know as a kid, I always looked forward to outdoor life coming in the mail and also in fishermen magazine.
Cause that was, that was kind of the thing was, you know, I wanted to learn more about fishing and growing up in Cheyenne, Wyoming, it was like a dead zone of fishing. I mean, there's, there's really not much close unless you're going to drive like two hours to Glendo three and a half hours to Semino, five hours to voice.
And like you just forget about it. There's just nothing there. So, um, you talk about teaching people. I was reading that as much as I could cause I knew. When I went, I had to really capitalize on those trips. And so, um, you've done an amazing job about that. And [00:02:00] I just wanted to know if you could just share some tips with us, you know, what's, what's some key strategies of getting kids and just other anglers out on the water.
What are some good strategies? So number one, number one, make sure you take them when you can get a bit people. I mean, I can't hold eyes. How important that is, especially with the younger ones that have a short attention span. Yeah, it is critical that Barbara is going down or something's pulling out in the end that, that line.
And that's one of the key, even with a new adults and we have a lot of those coming into the sport now that have never fished before. And yes, they have patience where the young people don't, however, their patience will wane after one or two trips without getting a bike. It's the biggest hindrance that I've seen to our sport and your people lack.
The key is getting a bit a bite to light that fire. They got to [00:03:00] catch something and, uh, you don't want to take them out in miserable weather conditions. You have to weather good and do everything in your power to make sure that they get back in there in a recent people, fish and continue to fish is they had a good experience and a good experience is.
Pulling on the end of the line. That's really the reason you're out there. That's what motivates people. It's the miracle of a fish. It is amazing to me, my entire life in this business to see what a fish can do to change somebody's life. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we get a kid sitting on the dock, touching blue.
gills all of a sudden out of nowhere, a two pound bass runs out from under the dock and grabs your bait. You never had yet you're catching bluegills and he had been a ball and that dispatcher. Your coffee break, where you'll land it, your life forever. Somebody had [00:04:00] never must get sick. Yeah. You know, they heard something about it.
They're going out with somebody that knows something about it. All of a sudden next to the boat, this monster opens his mouth and bites on it. It's when imaged, it burns into your, into your spirit, that it would change it. Away. That's what lights the fire in this sport. And it's why it's so important to, uh, in, in the good weather to do it.
And your debts, the key is to get, get a match and get a match and get a match. And then if the really young yet after two, three hours, you know, they like to think of running a wipe, whether you get a few fish around walk, it's like, they're fascinated with fish bouncing around in alive. And, uh, that that's the key.
It really is the key to keep them motivated, keep them efficient for the action in a short period of time, you know, and again, with the idea adult or even a young person after, after, you know, you'll get them out for [00:05:00] two trips the third time. Uh, yeah, you're going to say you want to go fish and warned me today that you have two bad experiences that are gonna go bad back in, uh, play video games.
So Al I was fortunate enough to grow up near saltwater and my dad in the Pacific Northwest, we did a lot of salmon and halibut and deep sea, and I got introduced very young to fishing. We actually just had a podcast with my dad on talking about, you know, starting that fire that you're talking about. I'm curious, who was the fishing mentor in your life?
The person that got you hooked on it. Yeah, actually my, my brother's 10 years, my senior and, uh, uh, he, he took me everywhere from the time I was a little kid. Yeah. You know, he's seen, uh, a burning cash and he shared that. He says there was something about it from the time you were little, you were obsessed with insufficient.
And he nurtured that. He actually nurtured that dad, that in him being 10 years older than I am, uh, you know, he kind of [00:06:00] took me under his wing. And, uh, I have some really good experiences in those years. One of them that, that really fed my passion for fishing was my mother. And this is kind of strange, but, uh, I got to share that story with you.
My brother obviously loved to say, yeah, yeah. You know, so he took me every week everywhere we could go. We fished all over the ponds and lakes and creeks and rivers in between Chicago and Milwaukee and there's many of them. And we were out every moment we could go, he'd be able to get away. He keep took me, took me, took me, but, uh, my mother really liked to fish.
And, uh, she seen, you know, people would ask me, you know, at a young age, uh, what do you go to a Christmas gathering? The family or friends like this, and there's a conversation and what are you going to do when you grow up boldly come coming.I'm going to make a living fishing So what I'm going to do, I know, look at you.
Oh, [00:07:00] okay. Yeah. You know, and blow it off. And, and my mother, she, she under the guidance the brother with it, she, she at Christmas time or birthdays or special events, every time I, all my Christmas presents and gifts, where's the latest, greatest fishing tackle in the industry, whether it was a rod or reel, allure, magazines, books, anything that she said that said, it never said that, well, that's a dumb thing.
How are you going to make a living in a fishing industry? You know, especially at that time, you know, that that many years. Yeah. You know, and you know, the only thing you, you know, you had tackle manufacturers that writers that, uh, at that time, one of the inspiring outdoor writers to me as a kid was Jason Lucas.
He wrote for sports or field at that time. And he wrote a book, uh, Lucas and bass. And I bet you, I read it a dozen times that, [00:08:00] and mark, every page
is burned into my mind. So, you know, it's experiences like that. Uh, then television, I remembered I and mirrors of TV, the TV fishing business. The first one, uh, his name was geared about Gaddis, the flying fishermen. He was the first one. He had syndicated television fishing and he'd fly to different locations all over the country and share his fishing experience.
And, and then that led to virtual world. That was the true, uh, championship fishing. And he was the one that lit my fire to get into the fishing industry and do a television show in the business. I had, uh, he was here in my hometown in Brainerd, Minnesota when he had, uh, were starting Lindy deco company.
And, uh, his producer, uh, his name was Jake, Dave Jed. When he gave us a call at the office one day and he says, [00:09:00] I am Dave Jane Woodbridge award championship fishing. We've been in the area for three days and we're having, we want to do a walleye show on jigs , can you help us out? I understand, you know, the lake , you're a really good fisherman.
Everybody says go, you weren't working. So she would do a show. I said, absolutely. So we went out and we got a phenomenal show, shot, four hours to get everything done. He's all happy. Went back to Missouri. And we finished that. And my brother, my brother looks at me that night, we're talking. He says the Internet's great.
He does a television show and talks about the lures that he manufactures. I says, you know, we could do that. We got winter. Why don't we start a television fishing show and help that's what lit that fire and guidance
that was, it bought a camera B camera. Uh, my brother learned how to use it and had a splice tape together as you you're shooting would film it rewind. [00:10:00] So, you know, these stories, you get into the game and enter the fishing industry and enter the sport and the different aspects that are available. All, you get these different stories from everybody that, that there has been enough to make a living business, but I'll go back to what I said just a little bit early.
It's just amazing. What a fish could do to change. Somebody's standing to me how it happens all the time. One experience would have been and just bam. You know, your life is changed by it. I, I agree. It's, it's an amazing experience. I remember catching fish when I was little and how it lit my fire. Yeah.
Again, I, I promised that I would do this on the podcast and I hope it's not lost because I, you hear this stuff a lot. But my friend, Seth Ewing, who lives in Northern Idaho and myself, we, we grew up just eating up your, your shows [00:11:00] and, uh, the magazine. And it really did benefit both of us. He's he's an incredible fly fish.
And he, he learned a lot from your fly fishing video that you guys put out with Dahlberg and, um, you know, and I, I love the small mouth and the walleye and those kinds of species. And so it's just one of those things where I hope it's not lost on you when you hear us say, you know, thank you so much for doing all of that, because it really did inspire a lot of people across the United States and the world, um, to go out and fish and to take other people fishing, which I think is really cool.
One of the things that I always enjoyed and my dad and I always enjoyed watching you fish was just the joy on your face. You were always. Yeah, chuckling and laughing and having a great time. And we were just living vicariously through you as the wind blew about 70 miles.
But I mean, it's, it's just, it, it, it really did make, it's a big difference. And I do want to, I want to ask about this because this is really important to David and I, we, we both have little kids and we take them out, [00:12:00] you know, fishing, hunting, different activities, and, you know, you have kids of your own.
And, and I know like he's very influential and big into the fishing business as well, but can you talk a little bit about what that was like raising your kids to be fishermen, but also, you know, kind of raising them. During that time that, you know, you're just so busy and you got all these things going on with the, with the fishing world and the fame that you had going on.
How did you manage all those things and still make it a great experience for you? Well, they grew up in the business. They did, there's not all, all seven that Ryan had seven children. I've got two boys, all of the kids, even the girls, three of his kids that up, they all served in the business doing something.
Yeah. Yeah. From the time we started Lindy and synchronize and learning how to tie Snell, wrap them on cars, you were exposed to the business. It's a family run business. I mean all their life, you know, when they grew up in and many of them were in [00:13:00] different fields, you know, and did other things. But the number of stayed in the business and are in the business today, like Jimmy and Dan and Billy and my son, Troy.
Yeah. Yeah. In my dorm. Nice work is up. Brush for many, many years, again, fishermen, it still helps me, uh, write, write material and press releases and things like that. She's with the gifted in that area. But they grew up in the business said, yeah, you know, and, and, and that way you were able to spend time together.
So they understood it. They understand that the crab and the things that the lifestyle, if you want to make a living a good, comfortable living in the fishing industry in the same setting, I don't have my myself, but I know many people that when I do know that that ends up the business relatively well, because there's similarities to what they used to.
You know, it's a lifestyle business that you want to get into, and it encompasses a lot of time. It isn't, [00:14:00] it isn't a nine to five job. You know, you eat sleep 24 hours just so you go to bed at night thinking I'm still today. I've been in this all my life. There is not one angle that goes. Did I read something about fishing, watch something about fishing.
Talk to somebody about tradition. It happens all the time. Not a day goes. We're so many aspects of it that it isn't touched in my life part of my life. And, uh, my closest friends are pretty much involved in the fishing industry. Like closest friends are question for me, Al and that's, you know, I'm kinda way, way, beginning of this journey.
I've got a small family run company, but it's in the hunting outdoor space. And you know, my boys are being raised growing up. We work right. We, we have stuff to do. There's it's a small family run business. It's. You know, [00:15:00] dad goes to work at nine and we're, we're done at five and let's go do X and Y. But my question is long-term for me, my dad took me fishing a lot and now I go hunting.
And now my boys are in a hunting company being raised. How did you see kind of the transition of with raising these kids in the company, in the offending fishing industry, have they stayed on and continued to fish and still thrive? Is that, was that, was that a positive experience for them? Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah.
For a number of them now there's some of them that it was not I'll use my two boys. In example, my oldest son joined and there was not in a heat. You shared with me, I'll give you my first experience with it. He was raised in the business. He worked in, it worked its way through until he went off to college and it, but he never was interested in fishing.
His passion in his case was things that moved fast, snowmobiles, motor bikes, four wheelers, dirt bikes. This is what he loves. [00:16:00] Sounds like we'd get along pretty well. That's it? I mean, that's what he loves to do Troy. And the other hand, or from the time he was a little tiny kid, you could see the seat. He would be on the back in front of our here day and night catching bass on frogs and, and, and just running up and down the band catching.
He loved it from the time he was four or five years. The internet never changed. He absolutely left. And I just think that know, God created a small, slightly different with different interests. And that's a good thing. The boy in the garage, tinkering on motors and going faster, and you had another guy you couldn't keep at the house.
He was taking his fishing pole and he was to the water at four and five. Yeah. And you have to answer parents. You have to respect that. I respect that they have to be their own person and seek out the things. And he all that different, you know, that those different interest levels, uh, impacted their rights [00:17:00] as they were growing up and led in some cases to do what they're doing today.
And, you know, again, my son, Troy's into it in a lot of different areas in my oldest son. And interestingly, he, he. Even as a kid, you love living on the edge. He writes here, he loved the excitement of the snowmobile racer that he gets. He gets so pumped on that. And today he's, he's a paramedic, he's a wilderness paramedic and he's fighting fires in California and he loves to gain that edge.
I get it to me. I like living on the salad lake.
That's what I really like. I imagine. And you know, I follow Troy on social media and that, that guy is always out doing something. And he's, he's an incredible fishermen. I mean, it's yeah, just anything anywhere anyway. And he loves digging around in all three places. [00:18:00] He's got rats, you've got pack Robbins, no matter where he goes, he's carrying rocks.
He sees the body of water anywhere. They could hold the fish. He just drives up in the side of the road and he goes spacious anywhere, anywhere as he's traveling around the country that day. Yeah. I'm out west. And I know he's fished some areas where I've been, and it's just kinda cool to see that. And I do want to ask you a question about that.
Everybody has some of those favorite moments. What was the F like a favorite moment for you fishing with your kids that you can recall the years? Uh, I'll go with Troy. Oh, I'll give you, uh, I'll give you my oldest son that never got turned down to it. And here's one of the mistakes I make made with him.
There was a series of best tournament series starting in Minnesota zillion years ago, it was called the north star bastard. And, uh, when he was about four years old, I took him free fishing. Mary and I got a cabin on a lake and I took him pre fishing for that tournament with me. And he had a [00:19:00] Snoopy rack.
You had a Snoopy rag. And then I had a weight spinner bait and it was a, you know, it was cool. We were up in the morning. It was out of cool bay thinking around his dragging this spinner bait through the water. And I'm trying to catch some fish, internet little, and I just said something it's something most out.
Oh, you haven't. He's holding a rag. He looks at me, he looks at the rad, he throws up, looked at me again.
I got the message. You burned me out so bad. There's a balance there Al where? Uh, yeah, so, you know, my dad. Took me steelhead fishing and I've, I've got quite a few steel head to my name. And if anybody out there knows steelhead there, they can be finicky and tricky fish to catch. I mean, the passion for catching them is kind of gone.
I I've, I've been wore out steelhead fishing and I've seen this in the [00:20:00] hunting industry where, you know, you get some guys that are pretty, have some prowess and are pretty successful. They take their 16, 17 year old son out and he shoots a, a world caliber elk. And 10 years later, he's, he's not into elk hunting, he's into fishing or, or snowmobiling.
Yeah. So, so those are all those images of the other side of that story with Troy. What are the experiences? Uh, for a number of years, we, as a family, uh, a number of us went up and we fished some tournaments in Canada, a rainy lake and a Minnesota Canadian border and another one. And I had a corner on at that bend to wake in the woods and we fished some team tournaments.
And over the years that we had fished that thing as a group together, ran fish with one of his, his sons, Jimmy and Billy, uh, clubs, other boys, fish, fish together, red fish with Danny. I fished with Troy and, uh, we look forward to these, these team tournaments every year up there. And we won a number of them in here, Jimmy and Billy won two of them back to back.
And note those weeks that the week of pre fishing leading into [00:21:00] that tournament in that was the final week must have done net for 15 years. Yeah. You know, and it was the highlights of, of our cryptic together with all of us as a family together. And each one of us, every one of us, when I talk, talk, talk to the boys, inclusive of try.
Now, he says that was some of the most enjoyable experiences we ever had and all of us at one time or another did a really good try. And I did a couple seconds and thirds. Internet, we did win one with him in California and in there when I had an opportunity to fish with him, those times that we're in those events, burned memories that they talk about still.
Yeah. And those trips are really important with father and a son. I know what my dad, we had an annual trip that we would take to flaming Gorge. And that always meant the world to me because we'd spend, you know, five or six days out on the Gorge, just fishing and not worrying about all the other stuff, you know, the work and stresses of life.
And, you know, I, I had told you in an email about a trip to Boise. Those kinds of trips, just make a huge [00:22:00] difference in a young Angler's life. And it definitely makes it something that makes them want to come back. It just, it burns into your suite. You get so excited and then you think about it. So often these things you keep revisiting that your mind, those are great.
Great, great experience. Yep. Absolutely. And I wanted to touch on something else because we do try to help, you know, young, new people in the, get into fishing and whatnot. And what are some tips that you give people when they're going to a brand new. Fishery. And they've never been there before. What do you tell them to look for and what are some tips that you give them?
Well, yeah, you know, it's gotten a lot easier these days because it's social media, you could camp into local fights, really. I mean, you're, you're, you're pre fishing research, uh, on lake levels and what the bite's been like recently, water clarity, stabilized image. It is endless in comparison to what we had 50, 60 years ago.
I mean, it was all through the changes that I've seen are, [00:23:00] are scattering in the business of what the liquid, but you could do so much preliminary work, you know, get getting on your computer, uh, check, checking out, Google earth, going to local site, uh, hunting down to local reports that give you an idea of what the bite is like and what they're biting that.
Yeah. You know, even to depth, depth preferences, that stuff today is. In most cases, these areas have a very dependable retail level. And that retail outlet, uh, is a great source of information. They don't hide stuff for people. They want you to have a good experience and they have fishing reports that are done weekly.
Yeah. You know, or there's things that are posted, uh, through their retail operation. So, so they give you the most up to date information you can possibly get, and it is, it saves you so much time by doing a little bit of homework. So Al you've got to fish a lot of places in your [00:24:00] lifetime. What was one of your favorite destinations?
One place you want to go, go back to at this point so far? Uh, probably one of the greatest place that I would go go bad. Batman I had was a family. Family went to Australia and, uh, we fish barren one windy and we floated the rivers. My wife stay, she didn't, she didn't coin with us when we went into the jungle and we did get a three day window, but I had my two boys with me and, uh, we floated the rivers were and windy and we camped that night and the banks and stuff.
And it was going through the state, you with these people, with the river, it, you see these salt water and you know, that that work experience, we fish adequate the very typical coins. Uh, w w the river for bear Monday was that the guy that we were with, he had a massive Jenn boat. And I think if I remember right, we had like a 60, 40 on [00:25:00] it, and we went, we took out a typical Queenslander.
We went out, I don't know how many miles, 30 miles or so it was in between there and new Guinea when you hit the two oceans. And it was like a boil down there. I've never seen so many fish in my life. And we got schooled and stuck stuff is a good thing. We have backup equipment. I don't even know, but we experienced that in there.
Then we fish GTS the great barrier reef. Yeah. You know, a couple of days we did that top water fishing for Gigi's, but that was the most, probably one of the most memorable trips I've ever had. And my boys were old enough to do remember that and enjoy it. And I've never been back again. I've never been back back us really, again, that sounds like a lot of fun to me.
It was exciting. It was really exciting. Every day was a true adventure. Oh man. That's one awesome thing about fishing is, you know, whether you're going out your back porch to your little [00:26:00] pond or, you know, for, for me, it was, we went to Alaska a couple of times. In my teenage years, dad took us up to prince of Wales island.
And you know, those, you can either go on a short little, you know, 10 minutes. Around around the corner and Fisher a canal right by your house. Or you can go halfway across the globe and, you know, go to Australia, the opportunities are endless and every one of them is special in its own way. You know? And every fish is special in its overweight way.
Worked with some incredibly gifted anglers. Uh, let Jimmy and Jeremy a hardcore Muskie. They love it. I mean, this is their fish, 12 months out of the year, they're crimped around sites. They're always thought where's the plan. What's next year where their shoots are in that. But every one of us that my, my Bishop Joyce was a small mouth and then I'll go to a wall and a large mouth after that.
Uh, I enjoy musky fishing, but not like these [00:27:00] guys do. Yes, that's their deal. And we got guys grab fish. Did that look crappy fishing? I'm kind of more kind of favorite with Troy. I like a little of Bentley thing. And in every case, everybody in our office sometime throughout the year goes and jerks and joys on a carp.
We all will get a carpet bike in one to two tasks, at least. Yeah. You know, something different, something added to your ordinary. We're good. Go get some carpet. And it pulled the fun to catch. They're challenging at times there's a lot of different ways to get them. Yeah. You know, if something I would not want to do everyday, I like to mix it up.
I like to catch a lot of different types of things. I can't do one. The one thing I like the variety, but, um, I mean, carpark, uh, they're so fascinating. And uh, I still in our country today. In a state state, they, you know, in Europe, in different places, the world, yeah. They're a big deal. Especially [00:28:00] European nations that, you know, that's the money.
That's like our best here. It drives the market. And many, many medications, something silly that in some offbeat, little places, me and trial will go around. When I visited him and he'll take me to the shore fishing spots and go find, we mainly go for an afternoon. We'll go think around for two hours, four hours, some offbeat place.
And he learned that when he was in Arizona for years, he went to college there. He learned all the inner city let wakes. He didn't have the bolts would embedded until I come down with a boat. You know? So all during breaks and classes, he found every. Nook and cranny fish in and around the entire Phoenix area.
And believe me, there was a lot of, there was a lot of little ponds and stuff in it, and it was, you know, what? He had carpet. He had a more, more at your standard run, a carpet. It had, they all had best. Yeah. You know, large mouth bass [00:29:00] in there and they had blue Guilin. Catfish. So we just think around shore fishing, that's where his love of fishing all developed those four years.
He went to school there. All he did was bank they all the time and it was just fun. I would love to go do it with them. I got the greatest and late greatest toys in the world world. And my one I'm rigged out with everything you can imagine on the boat, you know, the way this technology and everything. And there's a whole lot of times, it's just a whole lot of fun to go be the pine fish report shore and go catch some carp.
So I was going to ask you, I've always wondered this and I'm sure you've talked about it before, but you know, everybody's got their favorite method of catching a fish. Like if you could catch a fish. Type of method in any, any species. I know you love the small mouse. I love the small mouse as well, but if you could catch a fish in any type of presentation, what's your
yeah, absolutely. No question. No question. Okay, we're watching you on, uh, it was a walleye [00:30:00] video and a bass video, just catching tons and tons of fish on those jigs. So I had a feeling, it might be jig for everything, weather and wildlife, small. My blackmail says big, big pig pike, some version of jigging for Muskie Duncan, with tubes and big rubber Bates.
It's it's a jiggy. I don't think there's a better way for all kinds of fish all the time. Anywhere, know one by one family of Bates, natural leaders heading up a chick, a piece of bread or some kind wood addressing it might wait. It might wait four ounces for, with the water. And that might be a one 64th.
Uh, a purple Mylar jig will work pretty good for steelhead, but I I'm, uh, I'm preferential to top water, dry fly stuff. I like to see that fish commit come out of the water. That's just, I did enough, you know, wet [00:31:00] fly fishing that I, Patrick knows we've gone on some high mountain lakes. And I just, I really liked to fool that fish to come up all the way out of the way.
That's it. Is there any kind of tap water fishing here? Like for Muskie respond rare occasions, pike, get adequate tap water pipes. Yeah. It'd be fun if you want to be consistent year round. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta get beneath the surface of the water. My biggest pike was I had a 53 inch pipe and this thing was, was monstrous and it was lake near Julie, Larry, Mary Dahlberg.
And he was filming. We were at render and I got an antiquated back of a Cockney yellow water. Are you talking about a memorable. Experience with that. And, uh, uh, you know, whenever he's been everywhere to do everything yeah. You know, he still thought it was an unbelievable thing. And, and 53 inch pipe is we figured that this was [00:32:00] 30 pounds, you know, 35, 30, 8 pounds, something like that.
Yeah. Maybe it was Jack. It was Jack, you know, gigantic for a bike. That was the top water fish. I had a bus play pita ball. That would be, that would be a lot of fun. I now I'm like, wow, that sounds like a blast, but I wanted to change gears just a little bit. Um, one of the things that I've admired about you for years is that you're not afraid to talk about your faith.
And I think that that's a very important thing. And, you know, I wanna see if you could share just a little bit about your spiritual journey. And how God has played a big role in your life. Absolutely. The two most important parts of my life, the next year, I share it all call all the time. It's fishing in my faith.
They go hand in hand every day. It's part of my life. I integrate it in what we do with the television chills. You know, the DMPs that it, uh, I'll try to kind of quickly for you, but until the time I was 35 years old, [00:33:00] that, you know, I was a person, it was not an atheist store knickknack Nastic I probably would have favored more, definitely not an atheist.
And I don't believe anybody that spends any amount of time in the outdoors anyway. It can be an atheist. I think that's an impossibility, but I had no, really I was obsessed and I guess that's the only word I could use. I was obsessed with different 24 7. That was all that idea. You know, that's all like in our businesses, we're building at that point in time and yeah.
At 35, I started to get a tug in my heart to a right. The spirit of God was just tugging it in my heart. I met people that, that, uh, turned her life over to the Lord, Lord, Lord, that were hard party, hard drinking people that I knew a hard part of yours. You know, when there were like a different person. Yeah.
I know like night and day. And he started to talk to me about, about Jesus guy, different, I guess stuff I never heard of before the really, any me some [00:34:00] thumbs we'll let it, people began to understand that nothing really new, nothing. And then I started the search
in one day, turned this away. The Lord has forgiven us for assassin and, uh, uh, us Lord helped me. I, I can't do it myself. I need your help. I need your direction on this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And he made a confession of faith like that and I should get done. His wife been there for about two years. You know, I wandered around that, studied the word of God.
The Bible became challenging thing to me to get through through yeah. You know, little things like, could this really be real, you know, like so many people, this Bible could, this stuff really happened. This, this thing is, is there a guide that foundation just guided quote Jesus was the foundation. This thing that he really is, is he, did he comfort and reasons?
He said he did from beginning to end. And you know, when I started looking at this stuff and you know, one day it's got out of that, got out of my head answer by Heartland. It was never drink [00:35:00] for less 40 years. You know, all I can say is if you truly search, he's real, he's there. He left me ways. It's a real experience at the point, he's got to get out of your head and into your head become real.
And you know, it's a part of my everyday life. I'm not ashamed of the gospel and I share it openly and that's who I am. And I can only share the experience that I have. And how it impacts my life, my family, uh, my outlook on businessman, outlook on life, my relationship with my wife and the older right there, the clearer and easier it is for me to be more appreciative of my walk with the Lord Al I've got a question and it's a, I'm going to high posit it this way, you know, as starting my own business in the outdoor industry and walking in faith, you know, how, how has that affected, you know, business decisions and just, you know, living in the limelight and, and, you know, outwardly expressing your faith.
Is there ever moments of doubt? I mean, because in, in today's [00:36:00] society and day and age is definitely not something that's widely.
Are you saying subject back? Yes. But what would be your advice? I mean, as far as just running a business and walking in faith. Okay. I hear if you looked at the marketing partners that I have every single one. Yeah. From boat, motor ride reels, lures line electronics are the top right at the top of their field, in their individual categories.
Every one of them. And we've been with them for many, many, many years. Some of them almost my entire career. And I've sat in corporate boardrooms all over the country, going over television stations, the overtones and networking contracts with these mega conglomerate corporations and ethic. If I had one of them say anything about my confession of faith on that show at all, most of them have said they appreciated it [00:37:00] and go for it.
And one of the reasons for that is an unknown and some of them are not people, but they are. And the bottom line is I sell stuff for that's what I sell stuff for him. I do my job or I'm I do it with excellence. That's why they don't get it. You know? So I only had one major, major challenge would a network.
It was a wa was with the network and, and Jerry said that they didn't want me talking about God, that that was the words that they came back, came back. And they said that it's interesting the way they did it. Notification, we played on this network for a number of years. And this particular year a contract went just the way it always has.
And we had five weeks into the show and it was a Wednesday afternoon. When I got, when I got up, we got contacted by the president of the networker and he said, it says, who's going to pull the show because of your religious stance on it. W we don't believe it's went our network anymore. This was on a Wednesday.
We did. [00:38:00] I managed. They did this big, they were going to pull it. If we didn't, we did, we re-edited everything. I reiterated everything. I had contracts signed with a bunch of sponsors and I had to deliver the numbers in there. So we get a deck show and provide them Nike air on that weekend and entire re edited version.
And we continue to do that. Our attorneys said, you know, you've been witness. They want her to take the to court. This is you can't beat it. You got your ran for five weeks already. You did this for years. They never did it. They can't do this thing. And, and I talked to Ron and my wife, Delores, and his wife, we'll go through it.
They don't want you there. I don't want to be there if I don't want to be there, but they want, they want us to be pulled off. They want, they wanted to be the center. What we did that to show to them, we made the changes in our last end of the contract for the television season. We sent [00:39:00] them. They sent the bill to us and we sent them the bill.
We bill them back for the editing changes we had to make, sent it back. I never heard from them that I didn't pay him for the network in New York time. I charged him back for all of the pain and misery went back back, no legal, nobody called us back about a single thing. The legal, nobody from their legal, nobody never heard from him since.
Yeah. Well, and I'm really glad that you guys. You know, the, you and Ron have, have always been good about, you know, talking to people about your faith. And it's been a centerpiece of the show. And one of the parts of the show, they actually look forward to a bunch is the very end when you, you know, go through whatever God lays on your heart.
And I really just want to say, thank you for doing that because, you know, we need to be able to talk about these things. And it seems like culture is trying to move in a direction where they don't want you to talk about stuff that might offend somebody, but it's like, you know, these are things that we should all be talking [00:40:00] about.
You know, if that's part of your life, that's an integral piece, you should be able to talk about it. And there's one, one thought I have on that. Patrick is to speak, to have speech, to have thought you risk being offended. Right to someone. And I mean, if we're just going to walk around muzzled in mass and never have a conversation about anything, I mean, I'm into big game hunting that that can be offensive.
Catching fish can be offensive. So we have to push back. We have to. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they'll run over you if you don't. Yeah. You know, and I'm a big thing in the media business, all my life. I'm a big believer of freedom of expression, freedom of speech. Even if I don't agree with it, even if I don't agree with it, you still have a right to share.
I understand. And I respect that. Yeah. And I think that's something that people need to remember. Is that just because somebody says something you don't like doesn't mean you have to agree with them. You can just choose not to listen to that person anymore. I mean, there's, there's stuff that's put out all the time that I [00:41:00] don't listen to and I don't want to be associated with, because I don't agree with what their stance is.
And you know, there's plenty of stuff that I do love to watch. And listen to that. I do agree with there's people that disagree, whether you should catch fish on spawning beds or not. Right. We can get in an argument about that. Yeah. You could easily easily get when you can easily get on that. But, but again, I, I, like I said said, I respect our, our freedom of speech and expression is an important thing.
I've been in the media business, my light life on my license and people ever right to share that I have, I have a right, the like to tune into a cheddar, awkward, do whatever I want with it. Not read it. I can exercise my own decisions. I'm not going to go in there and call their sponsors and say, you shouldn't sponsor them because you're doing this dad.
Yeah, and I think that's something that needs to be heard. And I'm glad that somebody, I'm sure a few people hear it on this podcast, but what you said is very true. We [00:42:00] don't need, you know, this cancel culture of, of things. You know, people need to be able to share and people need to be adults about it and mature enough to handle it and choose what they want to listen to and what they don't.
I mean, that's, it's, it's really part of the backbone of what, what our country was supposed to be about. And, uh, anyway, I do want to change gears just a little, um, a guy that's been really influential in my life on fishing is pat O'Grady. I met pat, oh man. It's probably been 12, 13 years ago. And he was getting his company started.
Jumped in and helped him out with PK lures. And he had told stories about you coming out to Wyoming and doing some fishing. I remember reading in the, uh, walleye wisdom books, um, about, uh, Seminole and a few things. So I just wondered if you could share a little bit about coming out to Wyoming. The Western states are so different than Northern Minnesota.
It's a whole different world. And you mentioned it to, [00:43:00] you mentioned alluded earlier. One thing that I had to get used to was the never ending. Oh man. Ending wind. And, uh, I mean, if you go, if you're going to fish there, you better, better get used to win better net the Rick, the boat, right. To handle it and be in the safe piece, be a piece of equipment.
They handle wind in it. Cause it seems, I don't know if you guys ever go through three straight days in a row or calm day. I don't think I go to archery shoots and I have people say, well, I'm not shooting in the wind. And they start playing, oh, the wind's blowing. I said, well, you come to Wyoming. If you don't shoot or hunt in the wind, you just don't go hunting a joke.
I ended up CWT when we'd go to the Dakotas. As an example, you look at the weather report the night before they stayed the wit w the window. 15 to 25. That means it's going to be [00:44:00] 40 plus
an hour plus, that's what you're going to get.
Well, and you talked about Semino. That is one of the windiest places I think. In the lower 48. I mean, the wind speeds on that reservoir are ridiculous, but I'll tell you, the fishing is phenomenal. How many wind turbines have they put around it? Yeah, they fit a lot of wind turbines or anything for good reasons, but those Western reservoirs growth neighborly big fish.
Hey, we're trying to keep that a secret donkey Kong is amazing and even some very, I'm a small mouth nut. I love small mouth fishing. The small mouth world is small. Mouth fishing is as popular as it's become the tournament organizations that have really come up north and they had a taste of small box fishing, a great lakes, and now they're coming everywhere.
Yet you get to experience it in the tournament. I love it. The small mouth [00:45:00] fishery that exists west of the Mississippi river is still some of the most unexplored. In north America, the system west of the river or the Western states, many of those reservoirs got phenomenal, phenomenal, small amount fishing.
Yeah. I like to tell this story. I've told it a couple of times, there's a, there's a river in Oregon. I won't give the name, but, uh, I'll email it to you. We a drift boat floated at one day and I hooked 60 small mouth in a day and I got tired of jigging forum. So I put on a mouse pattern. I tied and I caught, you know, half a dozen smallies on a mouse pattern.
Just throw it right against the bank and start stripping it out. And they'd at that river, that's drift boat only. So no motor boats. And that, that can be a lot of fun. You know, those, those are they're sparkling gems out there. And some of the, some of the bigger systems, uh, you take the Missouri river system as an example, Becky, [00:46:00] you've got a wacky, uh, you know, these are massive bodies of water, massive acid system.
Yeah. And there's spots in there that, I mean the small Muppets, nobody coach, they won't see an angler in your role here. No, but you'll be there for remote and hard to get to PAC is one of the most remote fisheries I've ever been to. And I'll tell you what they are. There have got to be miles and miles of shoreline that never get fished.
And I mean, there's massive, massive fish in there when you get, when you get up there and weigh up that even if they're dry arm is their dry arm, that they're short, that arm is about what 40, I think that's 40 miles long. And then you've got that main arm is like 160 miles long. There's one and very few accesses.
Oh yeah, you're right there. I remember we had a PWC tournament there and what [00:47:00] really got my attention then is swamp Parsons weighed in? No, it was Tobias. They ran way when he brought in with his bed to fish. So we could wait. It was like six, three or six. This was that small bump that wedded away, that a scale in your macro?
I didn't warm up in December since I couldn't even pull a, we have to leave somebody from the descriptors. It's just a small, moper driving us crazy. Oh yeah. We do a ton of them in there. That's an incredible story. She just said they're they're miles up. Untouched, massive area, untouched mom, up there, fishing.
Not to mention some of that. There's one in, I forget that one. That yeah. You know, they believed, I think they believed the next state record for sure. Come out of there. I can't remember the name. Uh, but if you Saturday, I would know it. Yeah. There's some fantastic. Yeah. There's some fantastic fisheries out here.
I know, just in Wyoming alone. I mean, you've got a number of [00:48:00] really good reservoirs for walleye and, uh, you know, a couple for small mouth that are really significant and a whole bunch that are good for trout of various species. And of course, you've got flaming Gorge with those humongous lake trout and nuts.
Yeah. That's an incredible fishery too. We touched on in the Gorge center, small amounts in there. Yeah. They've, they've kind of taken a dive. The, they, they think that the, uh, bourbon that made their way there, somehow somebody moved bourbon down there into that drainage from up probably around this area.
And, uh, they just haven't, they haven't done as well. They, they were doing really well in the early two thousands. I used to go down there with my dad and we'd catch some up to four or four and a half pounds. And now it's pretty hard to find them. They're still there. They're just not in the quantity that they used to be environmentally then.
Yep. There's something to be said for that. You know, when I grew up steelhead fishing, you'd spend a lot of hours. And when you finally hook into one of those 30, 40 inch fish, I mean, they, they take you for a ride for a while, but you can fish for 2, [00:49:00] 3, 4 days before you even catch one hook one, you go small efficient.
And I mean, those fish are so dang aggressive. It's it's fun. So. Yup. There's a, there's a little reservoir here in Wyoming that kicks out, you know, around five pound fish pretty regularly. Um, and I, I went there with a buddy of mine one time and we were efficient top water between Josh and I. We, we both got probably 80 fish, a piece just fishing, little poppers on the surface, and it was just a lot of fun.
And then that thing that you talked about, Al, that happens in Wyoming happened, and the wind came up and was blowing really, really hard. He had to get off of there, but you're holding onto the gunnel of the boat for your life. You got your jacket on and it got wet. I'll tell you that much. We got wet, but, um, so Al what's, uh, what's next?
What's in the future. What's what's. What are you planning? What's coming up? What are we, should we, uh, um, I'm getting a little long [00:50:00] into theory. I'm slowing down a little bit. I did, I felt me and Jimmy, we go Muskie fishing. He got me for four hours. I ain't going to go on a 10 hour marathon that ain't going to happen.
You're only as old as you act Al, just so you know. Well, I'd go with as strong as I can. My body doesn't want it. My body don't want to receive that. There's things that are wearing down a little bit. I think that's a wisdom speaking to a little of that in there too. So I have to, I have to pick, pick and choose a little bit, a little bit more, but I still love it.
I love the game. You know, as long as I can contribute to this sport in a positive way, I'm going to do with him. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna quit. I'm not going to retire, but I am going to click that. Yeah, and I mean, by cutting bed, I want to do more fun fishing, uh, on the shows, Jimmy Jeremy's idea that the staff and other people we work with, I'd like to see Troy, get a little more [00:51:00] involved with this stuff.
These guys are good. You pick up the ball and run up and down the front line. Swan enough. I want a fun fish a little bit more. And by that, I mean, go do some things and places, a lot of bodies of water that I'd like to go to and play around a little bit to do well filming. Don't understand that, you know, when you're going fishing for the weekend without a camera crew, that that can be quite pleasurable when you're going.
Filming for an episode that can be, you know, when you got to redo, takes or redo, when you just want to go explore, you gotta to make it happen, man. You gotta make it work. And people don't, they, they sit in their living rooms and watch that and go, oh, well, they were just, they turned the camera on and went and had a fun time.
There's a lot of hours behind the scenes when the camera's off of. And then there's, uh, you know, it's the dressing. A lot of times, a lot can happen on a hot bite fast, but then when you dress the show after that, that's when you get the underwater camera stuff [00:52:00] out, you know, to fit that, to fit the scene where the fish are coming in, in, uh, to get the right drone shots in the environment, those all add to the editing and make it a little more exciting.
The music tracks that go with it, music is social. And, uh, uh, you know, a lot of shows don't use music because you have to pay the, uh, the question is $30,000 a year to use a music for the music track because of the royalties. Yeah. Al my, uh, my company's right in the, this is our very first go. My dad and I went sheep hunting this last fall.
We hired a camera man, and we took him and I'm learning very quickly of the shortcomings of, we didn't get, you know, B roll shot here and this extra shot here and, you know, getting that underwater shot or that overhead shot that you need. And it's, you know, it's really hard now to recreate and get those extra shots that we need to produce the film that I want to produce a real exciting.
[00:53:00] That'd be rollers goals, man, putting it, putting the actual, the actual easiest part in like an efficient is actually catching deficient, getting that part of it done.
And then everything else is putting it together. It's all done in an editing suite. And the more things you have to compliment the show, the better it becomes. Yeah. Yep. And where we're struggling and we're stretching. It is as thin as we can, but it's fun, man. It's fun. It is a lifestyle worth living.
Believe me. I bet if you, if you could do it and you find a way to get your niche in there and buck doing it and just as a lifestyle business for a lot of people, if you would, if money is your motivation, then you want to get rich. Don't come fishing industry. Here's a lifestyle. Some of us, if you can make a good, comfortable living, but if money is it, go to Silicon valley.
And live in that world [00:54:00] out there. If you want to be able to go out and enjoy the great outdoors and have a comfortable living this lifestyle, the fishing industry and the hunting industry, like you, ain't got a better choice. You will never regret it. Couldn't have said it better myself. I have one more question.
And this is a really important question now, because on this podcast, we talk a lot about recipes and we talk about food eating. I'm sure you eat fish. I I'm positive of that because it's so darn good. But what is your favorite fish species to eat and how do you like it prepared? It's real simple for me.
I had a three nights ago, again, it's just right up your bed. It sounds pretty good to me. A can of beans, beans, beans, some cream corn on the side with it. And it's like eating it's better than a lobster as it [00:55:00] gets.
Yeah, it sounds like you've been to an Edwards family dinner because that's what we do at my house with the fried walleye, perch and crappie, and some, some spicy beans. It it's still, you can celebrate my wife. She gets so excited when you guys came back from a leech lake and they we're at a good perch bite , LA Brea applies to bring them over.
Yeah, well, that's awesome. And again, I just want to say thank you again for coming on the show. We're really grateful for you, you know, not just the impact you've had on our lives and whatnot, but just, I know how busy you are and I am grateful for you taking the time to spend with us today. It was fun. I really, really enjoyed the opportunity guys.
Like I said, uh, if, if I can't be fishing, the next thing I want to do is talk about fishing and what it would have gone about 10 below. I'm enjoying. I enjoyed our time here today and, uh, [00:56:00] uh, you know, uh, another rapper in something that you might want to get, get that you might want to give this up sometime you're looking for another.
Yes, you can shoot it over to Jimmy. You're Jeremy outstanding. You don't want to get the credit. Troy he'd get into some real loss. Those guys I, Jimmy, and his Muskie fishing, Jeremy, those guys I'm really jealous because out here, you know, we just don't have access to pure bred muskies. It's just, we don't have them.
So, you know, I watched those guys and I watched those shows and I just sit there and I salivate and I cry a little bit. Cause I really wish I could be there. But man, it's sure fun to watch those guys catch them. When the fall musky bike turns out, I'm telling you that they get like, you know, after the turnover, your eyes turned glassy, you can't even talk to them like that.
Like I can appreciate that. Patrick knows [00:57:00] when season rolls around. David's gone, David with fall elk is gone gone, but ally will, uh, I'll tell you, you know, if, if you make it out this way, we'll put you on some fish instead of just talking about some fish. I like it, man. See you and, uh, you know, be safe on your travels this year.
And I look forward to watching more of the Lindor media. So I appreciate. Hey, thank you for the opportunities guys. Everybody have a good safety season. Thanks a lot. Bye bye. Bye. So I think we should keep rolling for a minute. We'll wrap this show up. I do have to tell a story about Al I'm really glad he came on the show and my first and only time that I've seen Al what is it?
I cast in 2011 and I was working on my laptop and I was up at the Las Vegas convention center. And I was sitting on the side, which is a huge building. Gosh, it's enormous. I'm sitting up and kind of out of the way, trying to find a quiet place. I could get wifi and do some work for paddle gradient, PK Lewis.
So I'm working on it. And I see this guy [00:58:00] come off, come off the stairs. And I see that it's Outlander and I'm like, oh man, that's, that's all in there. I want to go say hi and say, thank you. And so I get up and I start to head that way and I kid you not, it was like a stampede. I like the ground shook, you know, the sky got dark.
There was all these people just came from every direction and kinda cut me off. And you know, it was like, okay, you know, these guys are more important than me. These are sponsors. You know, these are guys that have a vested interest in talking to Al. And so I'm like, I'll just wait here for a minute. I'm sure it'll clear out it didn't clear out, man.
The massive people just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then that mass moved down to where all the booths were. And I was like, well, there goes my chance to shake his hand and say, thanks, but that'd be quicker next time. Yes. But now he's just got to spend an hour talking with him. He's he's a wonderful guy and he's made an impact on my life.
You know, I can only just tell you guys that it meant a lot to me today to be able to talk to him. When I was [00:59:00] younger, my mom passed away when I was 14 and after my mom passed away, one of my things, it was kind of an outlet for me, was fishing. Just to get away, clear my head, get away from life. And my dad, I remember one Saturday, he took me down to Cabela's in Sidney, Nebraska, which is about a hundred miles from Cheyenne.
So we went to Sydney, bought some fishing gear. We also went and we found that they had a rack of in fishermen, VHS tapes and books. And so we picked up those things and brought them home. And I mean, I was in those things like you wouldn't believe and, you know, on those rough winners of Cheyenne that I, I keep talking about, you know, with the wind and just the crappy fishing that was there.
And I don't mean the fish, you know, we, we would watch those videos and it would get us amped up for that next trip to the Gorge to catch small mouth there, that trip that we had that next year where we just clobbered the yellow perch in the wallet at Boysen. So, you know, those kinds of things really mean a lot to me and just Al and just the way he is, just how he has so much fun has so much [01:00:00] joy around fishing.
It's just so inspiring to me. And so having him on was a big deal, you know, for me today. So it was. But, you know, I learned that passion and positivity, right? Faith, faith, and fishing is what he said. But if you're not having fun in this industry and he really did hit the nail on the head. Yes. It's, it's nice to be able to get to a point where you could make a living at it.
But if you're wanting to make money, go to Silicon valley, go, go, go create the next app or whatever. The next thing is, you'll make money and, and live that lifestyle. But, you know, he touched on it. He's been in the industry for longer than about anybody. And he's still working. Yeah, I it's, it's crazy. He's I believe he's 76 years old and he's still going and just definitely an inspiration to a lot of people.
And, uh, one of the things I wanted to pass along is if any of you want to try to win a trip to go fishing with Al you can actually put in for that right now, if you go to anglingedge.com, which is their Lindner media fishing page. So it's anglingedge.com. You can actually enter to win a trip to [01:01:00] go fishing with Al which I highly recommend you at least try in the show notes.
Yep. So I'll have that there and then yeah. Go check out their website. I mean, they have so much information on so many different species of fish. It's kind of mind blowing, cause there's just tons of it. And you can order DVDs and a number of other things, but definitely support them. They're a great family, a great group of definitely take a kid or a new person with you fishing, go pick a, go pick smallies.
Yeah. And buy him some of these DVDs or show him their YouTube channel for any magazine sided. In fact, last night before doing this and stuff, I showed the kids. I said, do you want to see who we're going to have on the podcast? And the kids are like, yeah, I do. And so I pulled up YouTube and just played one of their, one of their wildlife videos and they're like, oh man, that's really cool dad.
And you know, and they were all excited. So definitely get people inspired, get them out there. That's the whole goal, Patrick. Exactly. So. Thanks to everybody for listening to this podcast. Um, it doesn't happen without support of our listeners and David. And I definitely appreciate it. [01:02:00] We do. Sorry. You have to listen to me some days or me for that matter some days I'm not all there, but definitely go to our website.
We have show notes. We have a lot of different episodes on tons of topics, you know, bears and elk and walleyes. You name it. We've got a little bit of everything. And then of course you can check us out on the social media. Do you want to support us? Go get your RAD Cast hat, get a hat and ship it to you.
They're pretty cool. Sharp. And of course go out and subscribe. You know, if you're on apple podcasts or Spotify or any of those places that you get your podcasts, subscribe to the podcast, like the podcast, please definitely leave us a review. Tell your friends, your friends. Yeah. So anyway, just wanted to say thank you again again.
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